An Interview with YouTuber Dave Klein aka DaveControl

We are happy to bring you an exclusive interview with Dave Klein, also known as DaveControl. He’s been a YouTuber, on-camera host, and producer for various gaming-related projects for years. This interview will explore his various stages in the entertainment industry, his creative process, gaming, and current projects.

Please enjoy and make sure to visit his channel and say hi from us!

Hi Dave, thanks so much for taking the time to do this interview with us. I’m super excited to have you here. First off, why don’t you give us a short introduction of who you are, where people might know you from, and what you are currently up to?

“Thanks for the interview! I’m a producer, YouTuber, and on-camera host for a variety of networks including my own channel, DaveControl. So — at this point, people might know me from a number of places. Most likely from DaveControl, but I’m also currently a producer and host for GameSpot Universe and a host for Nerdwire. I’m also pretty regularly a guest on the Facebook shows “Game Talk Live” and “Tauntfest“. Outside of that, I used to host for Polaris, Machinima Live, ArcadeCloud, and AfterBuzz TV, and have been a guest on channels like Game Grumps, JonTron, Caddicarus, and various Dark Souls YouTubers.

Long answer, haha. But currently: DaveControl, GameSpot Universe, and Nerdwire.”

You initially started your Youtube channel as a dedicated channel to Dark Souls, is that right? What fascinated you most about Dark Souls when you first saw it?

“Yeah, when I first started my channel, it was one of the few things I thought I’d do for fun and was pretty shocked when it took off. It wasn’t ever meant to be a “Dark Souls channel“, that’s just what I was into when I started it, and I had fun making content and interacting with everyone about the game. When I first saw the game, it was the art style and bosses, with the “Bartholomew Trailer” that fascinated me. It completely resonated with me as something I would enjoy, and in playing the game — the challenge and sense of reward. Also, the fact that I felt powerless at times — it was a nice change from a lot of games where you’ll see a giant boss monster, like in God of War or Bayonetta, and feel no real emotion. But in Dark Souls — I’d see the Hydra in the distance and get an honest sense of dread — and I loved how intimidating it was.

While some channels stick to one general theme (PvP, Lore, Lists, etc.), I liked bouncing around between genres, as I enjoy writing both humorous and serious content. It’s nice to mix things up. And, while I’m most known for my Lore series if that’s all I did I think I’d get bored with it.”

How has your channel evolved since then and what is your view on the upcoming remastered version of Dark Souls?

“My channel evolved into more of a variety channel, in-part because I never wanted to only talk about Dark Souls — as much as I love it. There’s so many other games I wanted to, and still want to make videos about. I find it fun to talk about why games that I love work, and what’s so fun about them, as well as dig into the history of the people behind them.

As far as the remastered Dark Souls goes — I’m excited for it. I’m pretty rigid in not wanting too many changes, and I’m actually glad the changes are mostly limited to improving multiplayer. While I don’t think the game needed a graphical overhaul, I’m really just glad that a new generation of gamers who might have played Dark Souls 2, 3, or Bloodborne will have a chance to play what I consider to be the best game in the series. Also, Dark Souls portable on Switch! Who wouldn’t want that?”

One of my favorite parts about you and your channel is that you regularly take deep dives into gaming history and still enjoy games from your childhood (e.g. Mega Man or King’s Field). What do you think about the current state of video games? Are you just not that interested in modern IPs?

“I don’t have a super negative outlook on modern games, like I’ve seen some modern reviewers take, but a lot of modern IPs don’t particularly appeal to me. That said, 2017 was an amazing year for games, and I kept ending up making videos about modern games, whereas I’d been meaning to have more videos of classic games at this point. But, there are a number of issues with modern games I think are interesting to discuss.

For 1: A lot of Publishers want the next big hit, and seem more likely to spend a huge amount of money following trends. This isn’t a new thing, I mean — hell — when I was a kid it was platform games, I just enjoy that genre so didn’t mind. The issue now is that games are so expensive, it leaves almost no room for experimentation, and I think a lot of modern games are suffering in that — while they’re new they actually feel stale.

2: Games are too long now. While I don’t mind an occasional Open World game, or “Games as a Service” game, they take up so much time. And it’s definitely great for someone who can only afford a couple games a year — but overall I would much prefer to have different strong gameplay experiences. These games tend to suffer from their length, as they’re bloated and a lot of what you end up doing ends up feeling like busy-work, and not a core gameplay experience.

3: DLC of almost all kinds are a major issue I don’t think a lot of newer gamers realize. When a game offers you the option to buy “cosmetic items” or some sort of loot box to receive it, even if it’s “purely cosmetic”, you have to remember these used to be a part of the full game experience, and incorporated into the gameplay. Mario Odyssey is a great example of this, where you earn cosmetic costumes, which feels good and enriches the experiences. Other games used to include these as in-game rewards or secrets, which really added to the sense of accomplishment.

4: Complexity of games has changed too. A lot of games used to be more about a simple concept that a world was built around and expanded upon. Now — a lot of times it feels like the reverse is happening. A world or idea is presented, and then every little idea of what might work is placed within that world — upping how complex the game is, but not necessarily improving it. Sometimes a small simple idea — like Tetris — is more fun than a massive barreling amount of things to do.

5: A lot of my gripes with many (not all) modern games can be addressed by indie titles — but I think that’s where team size becomes an issue. There are some amazing Indie titles, but they still tend to have a different feel from classic games. I think that’s in-part due to most indie titles really having 1–4 core people working on the game, whereas even Mega Man had more people dedicating themselves to the game. It’s not a good or bad thing, it just seems to have a different feel, often-times. Meanwhile, AAA teams with 200 people often-times seem to lose their creative edge. I’d really love to see major developers paying 20–40 person teams to make smaller games, and actually take risks creatively.

6: Finally, the lack of limitations is actually an issue. Limitations force creativity, and I think can be a super positive thing. I’ve found myself in situations when making videos, where I’ve been forced to limit myself and find myself coming up with concepts far superior to what I’d initially started with. I think that’s part of why there was this golden age of handheld games (in my opinion) with the GBA and DS — with games like Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Ghost Trick, and The World Ends with You spawning, among many other greats.

Anyways, this all sounds super negative. There are a lot of great modern games, both AAA and indie — so-much-so that I struggled to make a Top 10 games video for 2017 because of the massive number of fantastic titles. But, at the same time, there are definitely developers I’ve completely lost interest in who I used to love.”

You’ve mentioned multiple times throughout the years that it takes you between 20–200 hours from idea to finished video. Give us a quick scoop on what your favorite part is, what drives you mad, and how you ultimately decide which game to invest your time in?

“So, the steps that go into making a video are typically: Recording Gameplay and taking notes, researching and writing, recording Voice Over, shooting the on-camera segments, and editing/motion graphics.

Usually, the recording gameplay part is pretty relaxing and fun but can be weirdly frustrating — as sometimes I just want to get to work, haha. My favorite steps are the more creative steps. I really enjoy researching and writing — as that’s where I feel like I’m truly making the piece. On-camera and VO is usually a lot of fun for me too.

Editing though… absolutely drives me mad. Sometimes while I’m editing videos, I’m honestly sitting there thinking: “This is my Hell”. There are moments I enjoy, and it’s definitely rewarding to put my style and voice into what I edit, but ultimately it’s incredibly tedious and time-consuming. That said, I do usually enjoy when I do the crazy effects/far more complicated edits, as like in a video-game, those are the ones that are the most rewarding when I finish them.

As far as how I choose the game — I have a big list of games I want to cover and talk about. It sort of swings around between: What do I happen to be in the mood to cover, is there a game that just came out that took all of my attention and would be fun to talk about, and I’ll also check what people have been requesting. I’ve tried to do games that I both liked, and seemed like it would be trendy in the past, and it’s never worked out for me — so I pretty much just stick to focusing on what I really enjoy since it’s a huge time commitment, and I don’t want to put that into something I don’t care much about.”

As a long-term content producer, what advice would you give to someone who wants to start as a young content creator? What are the most significant hurdles you had to tackle over the years and what was the best advice you received during those times?

“I think the biggest piece of advice I could give is: Make something you would actually want to watch. If you wouldn’t watch it, why would you expect anyone else to? Also, don’t expect to get big on something everyone is doing, like Let’s Plays or Vlogs — getting big on those are akin to winning the lottery. Finally, you better like what content you’re making, because if you do get big, you’re going to get stuck with it.

Here’s another thing: It’s easier to grow by focusing on a niche. And I don’t mean: Video Games — that’s not a niche. I grew because I focused on Dark Souls and Fromsoftware content — that’s a niche (that happened to grow, which I got lucky with). But, it’s also really hard to branch out if you’re known for a niche, and something I still struggle with. That’s actually the biggest hurdle I’ve faced, and am still facing. People knew me for Dark Souls, and I figured if I made my non-Dark Souls content super high quality, no one would complain or get mad. I was right — but a lot of people also just didn’t watch it in the first place.

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve gotten any specific advice on growing my channel. But — for my particular problem — I’ve found that if you can still manage to create just as much content for your niche — while also making expanding content — that’s how you can usually eventually break out of a niche. Or if you’re just that dynamic as a personality.”

Who inspires you? Could be anyone, ranging from a fellow content creator, an industry icon or a friend?

“When I first started, Epicnamebro was a huge inspiration. He was the first Let’s Player I truly cottoned on to, and who helped me understand why it was such a fun genre. I also watch wolfman11983’s King’s Field Let’s Plays.

My Super Shows were, as people are quick to remind me, inspired by JonTron. A lot of the humor was humor I already enjoyed and had employed before I saw his videos — but he really inspired me to put my all into a video, and make the best product I could regardless of how long it took and not take shortcuts. Also — that “Angry Video Game Nerd” style of presenting a topic. I always knew the style — but JonTron is what really proved to me it could be done well. (To my sense of humor). People have also told me my Super Shows (and other videos) are similar/ripping off PeanutButterGamer, and sometimes similar to SpaceHamster — but I didn’t watch their content until after getting those accusations, so I think it’s just a case of a similar sense of humor. I’ve always found things that are random crack me up, so I try to create that for my shows. Or… when I’m editing, and I’m mind-numbingly bored, a huge amount of my humor is actually just me trying to crack myself up while I’m editing, to make the process more enjoyable.

With my history content — there wasn’t really any inspiration. I’d been wanting to make gaming history videos for years, and didn’t have the tools to do so. I wish I’d started them when I first had the idea, but que sera sera. That said, I’ve never been compared to anyone for them, so I guess they must be pretty original?

Outside of that, I think anyone I watch and enjoy ends up influencing me in some way. For YouTube, h3h3 and idubbz have probably had an affect on my humor. I first started making content for a YouTube channel in 2007 called “Gamezombie.tv“, we had 3000 subscribers which felt impressive at the time. A lot of my co-workers and I had that random YouTube style of humor, similar to JonTron, which is really where a lot of that style came from for me. The way I animate characters on the screen was influenced by Barry’s style of keyframing for when he used to edit on Game Grumps. Kevin Pereira, the former host of G4’s Attack of the Show, was a huge influence on me for hosting and on-camera in general.

Overall, it’s a big mish-mosh. Honestly, anything I watch and enjoy probably has an influence on me for better or worse.”

If Youtube/Twitch wasn’t around, would you have gone into TV hosting or any other preferred form of entertainment (e.g. radio)? Have you thought about doing a Podcast? It would suit your long-format style quite nicely.

“First of all — thank you!

It’s hard to say, because I did all of those things before my YouTube channel, and wasn’t successful at any of them. When I first graduated from college, I moved out to LA and got a TV hosting agent. I had auditions but never ended up getting any jobs. I was hosting (for free) for the YouTube network “AfterBuzz TV“, and actually started a network for them called “Game Control”, with “Game Control Live” being our main show — which was essentially an hour-long podcast. While I was doing that, and trying to get that to take off, I started “DaveControl” for fun, with the name “DaveControlLive” purely because it was similar to “Game Control Live”, only expecting some of the 50 or so people who watched “Game Control Live” to subscribe.

So… maybe? I feel like I probably would have never made it, given my experience with it. But, that’s what I loved about YouTube — you didn’t have to wait for someone to give you a job or opportunity. I actually made shows that I pitched to G4 and GameTrailers, when they were around, just on my free-time. And, was always trying to make things to pitch to networks. So… on the other hand — maybe I would have ended up pitching a show to a network that would have been picked up and be far more successful, haha. Who knows!”

Let’s get into Persona 5 for a second. It was the first time you went into the franchise, right? What separates the game from other typical JRPGs in your opinion? Anything you didn’t like?

“What have I been missing out on?!

It’s kinda like Earthbound — in that it’s one of a very small number of RPGs that’s willing to just tackle modern-day life, and I love that about it. I think with Persona 5, specifically, it managed to feel like playing an anime, which is pretty incredible. It also took stylistic liberties with its art style, at least P5, which really added to the feel of the game.

Overall, though, I think the strong character writing is really what separates it. You really care about the characters, and not just saving the world. Plus the dungeons are totally unique — in that your MP acts more like a time-limit. The more you use it, the less you can be in a dungeon, which makes this nice mechanic of making you really have to decide if you want to utilize magic or not. MP can be really OP in a lot of RPGs, so this was a nice way to balance that.

As far as things I didn’t like — I had some issues with the story. The Kamoshida arc (first arc for anyone reading who doesn’t know the game) was one of my favorites as the characters were reacting to a horrible situation. Eventually, they’re far more proactive, and I think the story becomes less interesting during those parts. My roommate told me P4 is more of a murder mystery, and that sounds more up my alley, story-wise.”

Besides Ann (Bae; obviously) and Ryuji (who copied your sleeveless-style), who was your favorite character in the game and why?

“Everyone should wear sleeveless shirts! Then I’ll stop getting shit for it, haha.

How could you take out Ryuji and Ann from my options? They’re the best!

I like Makoto and Sojiro a lot. Sojiro seems like a really cool father figure. I’ve always wanted to do a homestay in Japan, and it was almost like a dream come true with a super cool homestay dad. And I like Makoto as she’s hard-working and responsible, but not a snob about it.”

What does your backlog look like, any games you’ve been dying to play but haven’t had the time just yet?

“It just keeps on building. Right now Doki Doki is at the top of my list. I’ve been trying to avoid all info about it, I just know it gets really meta and sounds super creative. I’m trying to sneak in time to play God of War… I’ve maybe played 3–4 hours, but it’s hard to find time! Outside of that, I’ve never played a Metal Gear Solid game, so that’s a big one on my list. Also Uncharted 2… I’ve only played part of the first one. The Last of Us too. I finally played Silent Hill for the first time a few years ago thanks to a friend. Ace Attorney X Phoenix Wright looks great. Hollow Knight and Darkest Dungeon — as far as indie’s go. I’ve only ever played the first Spyro game and never finished it, even though I loved it, so I’m really looking forward to the remaster.

And then there’s the JRPGs. Persona 4 is probably at the top after playing P5. I never beat FF7 because I lost my memory card when all of my characters were level 90 and I was fighting Emerald Weapon — so I really want to play through again. Seiken Densetsu 3 (Secret of Mana 2). I actually own it but haven’t had time to finish it.

I’m sure there’s a huge number more I can’t think of and don’t need to be listed, haha.”

In your latest channel update, you talk about the various projects you are currently involved in. Do you see it as a welcome diversion that enables you to create more content for different and new audiences?

“It’s a mixed bag. It is nice to diversify, and I’d like to talk about anime a little more which I get to do at some of these other places. I also find that going to other jobs and work can help me creatively, as I’ll get home and be really excited to work on my YouTube channel. Whereas, if that’s all I’m doing, it can feel more draining. I think it’s also good to be well-rounded, and other work helps me get out more and do that. But… sometimes I’m just exhausted, or frequently don’t get enough sleep, so there’s that aspect too.

Also, you seem to have a really good grasp on your research, any sources or sites that stick out?

For research, my favorite sources are: http://shmuplations.com , who I’m actually a Patron of, and http://www.source-gaming.com . They’re direct translations of Japanese interviews — which tend to be much stronger material than English ones. I’ve noticed that people are much more open and forthcoming with info if they’re being interviewed in their native language. There’s also a couple books I think are great, in particular: “Game Over: Press Start to Continue” — David Sheff is absolutely incredible. But, I have a huge stack of gaming history books at this point, which I’ll usually read while I’m eating dinner.

Some aren’t too reliable, though, so really, a lot of it is cross-checking multiple sources, finding where they got their information, and doing everything I can to find first-hand sources and interviews. There’s one book I bought I was really excited about and ultimately disappointed by called “Console Wars” — Blake Harris. In the intro he admits he fabricated stories and information to make it more exciting… but he has 100s of interviews under his belt for the book. So, on one hand, it’s this great source of info — but on the other, I have no idea what I can trust from it and have even found things I know are incorrect. It’s my strongest source for the upcoming “Sega Genesis: Chronicles of Gaming” history video I’ll be working on, so it’s going to be a huge struggle fact-checking everything when I get to it.

PS: I also wanted to mention Kelsey Lewin’s channel. I don’t use her as a source, but she knows her stuff and also has a lot of really fun history videos on obscure gaming stuff.”

Let’s talk about your new channel DaveControlPlay. Give us a short rundown of your decision process and how you finally decided to go for it. How do you like it so far?

“I’m of the mindset of: When I’m subscribed to someone if they put out daily videos I don’t want to watch, it not only annoys me, but also makes me want to unsubscribe. I know I have an audience who found my main channel through Let’s Plays and really enjoy them… but my most popular content — and what’s gotten me the most subscribers — are my higher quality content videos that take 20–200 hours to make.

With the fact that I’m working as much as I am outside of my channel, I realized that my uploads might slow down a bit. But, I really wanted to have regular content for people who enjoy it. So, I figured it’d be best to just start a separate Let’s Play channel for those people. Also, as it’s a separate channel, I can pretty much just play whatever games I want without worrying about subscriber count and such. So, it’s been great, as it basically just gives me an excuse to play games once a week that I really want to play, and have the excuse for myself that it’s “work”.

It’s also the first time I’ve ever hired an editor, Scott O’Neal (Nook), so the time-consuming part I don’t enjoy is being taken care of. At the moment I’m not making any money on this new channel, and am actually losing money — but, I do really care about my various channels, and I’m happy that I’m able to provide the people who do want Let’s Plays with something to watch.”

What content would you like people to check and what should we look out for in the future regarding DaveControl? Any new concepts coming up?

“I’d love if people checked out my “Super Shows“. I consider them “comedic retrospectives” of games, and not reviews. But — they’re fun deep dives into games I love, walking through the story with humor and sketches, as well as talking about the game design and what makes the design of the game work so well. (Or other aspects that I find important).

Otherwise, I’m super proud of my “Chronicles of Gaming” series, which chronicles the history of video games, going console-to-console. I’m going chronologically, and only have 4 episodes finished as they take so long to make, but I’ll be working on a Sega Genesis one soon, and after that (at some point) Super Nintendo… then the PS1/Saturn/N64 era.

No new concepts at the moment… I think. I’ve been wanting to make lighter videos on gaming topics (like story in games, or cosmetic DLC), and maybe one day I can hire an editor for that and pump out more content on the main channel. Otherwise, I’ll be doing a few videos for Dark Souls: Remastered.”

Is there anyone you would like to mention here, someone who has supported you over the years or has been an invaluable source of wisdom, patience or joy?

“NOPE.

Nah. My parents have been super supportive of what I do, although also realistic, but it’s nice to have that. Everyone who’s ever been in one of my videos, it’s really meant a huge amount to me. When my channel had only a couple thousand subscribers, I pitched a collaborative Christmas video with the Souls community to people I didn’t really know, offered to produce it all, and I was amazed by how many people hopped on board who I’m now friends with. TerraMantis, SunlightBlade, Oroboro, Peeve, DreadedCone, AGermanSpy, Veselekov, Hellkite Drake, and eventually EpicNameBro and VaatiVidya. (And everyone else, if I didn’t mention you I’m sorry!!!) A lot of these were guys I really looked up to, and it was amazing to have them in a video I produced.

And, when I started my Super Shows, again — the guests who were willing to make cameos in my shows like Dodger, Caddicarus, and Strawburry17. Again, it’s super cool having people you admire and respect appear in one of your videos.

And, majorly thanks to: Mat Newman, John Quick, and Sam Sher. All of them have helped me produce my Super Shows and act as camera men, audio guys, and help direct me whenever I need it. The shows wouldn’t have been possible without them. Mat also helped me conceptualize and produce the “You Need to Know” series I make. And, seriously, I don’t know how the shows would have been possible without them.

Finally, it’s super cliche, but everyone who watches my content. I remember working really hard to make videos, and getting maybe 10–20 views. The first time I made a huge video for YouTube was around 2010 (for Gamezombie), and the comments were pretty much “Kill yourself”. So, to actually have people who actively choose to watch the things I make is beyond amazing. I’m always thankful for that, and I hope that people keep enjoying the work I do. And, honestly, even the fact that you’re here interviewing me is really cool. It’s hard for me to conceptualize that people actually care about what I do. Part of me feels like I’m just being narcissistic talking about myself, but I hope it’s enjoyable, haha.”

Final question: What will be your next Super Show be about and when can we watch it, any scoops ;-)?

Shovel Knight! I’m still in the writing/research portion of it, so I’m not sure when exactly… but probably after I finish Dark Souls: Remastered content, as that’s going to interrupt my work on the Super Show, haha. Down the road, some of the games I want to do are: “Quest For Glory I: So You Want to be a Hero”, “Popful Mail”, “Fire Emblem 7”, and “Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective”. I’ve been debating on doing a Top 10 list or a Super Show on Room Escape games (free online ones), as I love them. Although… 4 years ago “Twilight Princess” and “Pokemon Red/Blue” were at the top of my list to do, and I still haven’t gotten to them… so who knows! Shovel Knight is next for sure, though. And will actually be the 25th episode!

Dave, thank you for taking the time to do this interview here at Obilisk Games. It’s been super fun for me since I’ve been a long time fan of your content. We wish you all the best in your future endeavors and would love to have you again sometime.

Make sure to check out Dave’s content and consider subscribing to his various channels! Stop by his YouTube channel, his Let’s Play channel DaveControlPlay, his Twitter and his Patreon page!

Originally published at www.obilisk.co on May 22, 2018.